Why I would nearly quit the game (losing stuff)

Euphemia
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Why I would nearly quit the game (losing stuff)

Postby Euphemia » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 05:26

Playing two years and the sort of thing that has the potential to really depress me in a game like this is when I accidentally lose stuff because of some stupid mistake or a bad interface or pressing the wrong button. This has happened to me three times in two years playing.

(1) I accidentally deleted a companion when trying to simply put it into a concession. I was kinda double clicking it and the companion was gone. What happened? No "are you sure?" or anything. This seems like a bad interface because you almost never actually want to delete a companion. I've only intentionally deleted a companion once and that was because I was too lazy to dump a low level one properly before picking up another companion (clearing space). i suppose at the start of the game you might do it if you do not know that you can drop off companions in a concession and you falsely and disastrously think the only way to recruit new companions is to delete old ones.

It was only a prospector. So no big deal just a couple of hours lost. But it was chilling. It could have been something completely irreplaceable like the Golem Monster or something incredibly expensive and hard to replace. If I'd lost my GM on my main character I might have just left the game. Why is the interface make it so easy to do something so bad that you'd almost never want to really do?

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(2) It's much the same with deleting buildings. I once accidentally deleted my guild's mansion. There's no "did you really want to?" again, although at least with buildings sometimes you actually do want to. Of course it took a week to rebuild the thing. Pretty bad. it's a very easy mistake because the UI changes when you own the building and the delete button shows. That means the layout for the building's UI looks different for the owner and that can easily lead to confusion and pressing the wrong button. If you're used to that button on the end being the one for "start the action' or move here or something you might press the delete button accidentally because now it's the one on the end. There's no confirmation. and it can be pretty bad when it happens.

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(3) I'm finally ready to attack Iriza which is a major milepost in the game. I have spent a lot of time gathering rare components and making poison to help in this fight. I have a stack of 8-10 poison tips to use which increase my pierce attack by 4.9 Oh wait -- where did they all go? sixty or so hours of work and using up rare materials. They've all gone because when you equip the stack it stays equipped after the big fight and wastes a poison dart in every unimportant fight you take place in that day. There's no warning that you're doing this thing you'd never want to do. At least i assume this is what happened. At first all i knew was all my hard work had just disappeared. This seems like a terrible design because it's almost as if the game is trying to cause you to lose your hard earned stuff. Even if you know about the problem and try hard to remember to unequip the stack of darts after the big fight, you're bound to forget one day. This one just happened to me and i feel miserable about losing all that stuff I worked hard to get. Endless hours harvesting rare materials and even after that it's what 7 or 8 hours each?

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So obviously I didn't rage quit the game (or depressed quit) but these are really bad bugs that could probably be easily fixed. maybe these aren't technically bugs but I think they have more chance of making someone quit the game than a real bug.

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Céline
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Re: Why I would nearly quit the game (losing stuff)

Postby Céline » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 06:04

(1&2) Don't remember you contact the support about that... :( I'll send the information to a higher level.
(3) We try to find a solution to satisfy everyone

-> I'll send the information to a higher level. But don't forget that "bugs" or other "small changes" are generally more complicated than they seem.
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Euphemia
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Re: Why I would nearly quit the game (losing stuff)

Postby Euphemia » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 06:20

I didn't complain about it and don't worry about number 1 and 2 they were ages ago and everything got fixed by me.

Now 3 happened today and I won't lie I'd be really happy if someone magically fixed things but I'd rather get a general fix. I actually saw someone else talking about this in another thread a few weeks back. I bet it can happen a lot. Someone suggested a work around of just never carrying more than one poison dart. I'll probably do that in the future.

I am programmer myself and something like a "did you mean to?" should be pretty easy. The stack of poison darts is more problematic. The easiest solution might be to make the poison dart item an unstackable item. It probably took work to make them stack as most things that are made of variable materials like tools or armor or jewelry do not stack. I guess potions stack.

I'm genuinely wanting to avoid people quitting the game. The sort of anger / depression from a big loss for a lot of people they wouldn't think to ask support to fix their problem especially if it was an accident and therefore "their own fault".

PlainSpell
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Re: Why I would nearly quit the game (losing stuff)

Postby PlainSpell » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 07:39

Also poison has a simple, same solution. Since combat is not exactly a real time affair in this game, a simple confirmation dialog "Do you want to use poison in this fight?" [Y/N] at the start of a fight should do it and is a better solution than unstackable item.

The remaining problem is auto-combat. Those fights that happen while you are offline or afk. There could be a setting "Use poison in auto combat" checkbox somewhere. Or perhaps poison simply cannot be used in those fights if this is acceptable.

I hope they add confirmations on destroy. I have been avoiding those buttons too and wish they were somewhere else, perhaps on top of the graphics and two clicks away. Maybe they should go the whole yard and add confirmation with input boxes where you must type "destroy".

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Balok
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Re: Why I would nearly quit the game (losing stuff)

Postby Balok » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 15:21

As someone who writes software for a living, I would like to say that requiring confirmation when a user is about to do something he can't undo is all but a standard in UI design. You never cause a user to lose important work without confirmation. In games, people will tolerate more. In applications people use to do their jobs, you will drive them to your competition if you cause them to waste time and effort.
Solomon Grundy, born on a Monday...

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Céline
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Re: Why I would nearly quit the game (losing stuff)

Postby Céline » Fri 06 Jul 2018, 16:37

En Français, parce que mon anglais ne me permet pas de répondre correctement en Anglais.

Lorsqu'un combat démarre, le jeu récupère plusieurs informations, l'une après l'autre et dans un certain ordre qui a son importance : qui participe au combat (de chaque coté), l'état de santé, les statistiques, l'équipement, etc etc. Je n'ai aucune idée de tout ce qui est chargé à ce moment ni dans quel ordre. Il faut donc déjà trouver exactement le bon "moment" pour placer la demande de confirmation. Et quand c'est fait, il faut aussi prévoir un moyen de ne pas tenir compte et de ne pas consommer le poison équipé si le joueur refuse de l'utiliser. Et ce n'est là que ce que je peux imaginer, je ne suis pas codeuse (j'ai tout juste quelques notions apprises il y a bien longtemps).

En ce qui concerne le fait d'enlever les "paquets" de poison pour que chacun soit un objet différencié, c'est demandé. Mais là encore les choses ne sont pas si simple, parce qu'il existe déjà des tas et des tas de poisons en jeu, équipés ou non. Et que modifier une caractéristique d'un objet entraine des vérifications à la chaine sur l'existant. Et/ou le risque que les anciens objets ne soient plus reconnus pour leur fonction.

Bref : ce n'est pas aussi simple que caler un "y/n" ou décocher une case.

Le message a été remonté. Je ferme le sujet. Si un autre membre de l'équipe veut compléter mes réponses et rouvrir le débat, il le fera.


GoogleTranslate (don't hesitate to use your favorite translator ^^)
When a fight starts, the game recovers several information, one after the other and in a certain order that is important: who participates in the fight (on each side), the state of health, the statistics, the equipment, etc. etc. I have no idea what is loaded at this time or in what order. It is therefore necessary to find exactly the right "moment" to place the confirmation request. And when it's done, we must also provide a way to disregard and not consume the poison equipped if the player refuses to use it. And this is only what I can imagine, I'm not a coder (I just have a few notions learned a long time ago).

With regard to removing the "packets" of poison so that everyone is a differentiated object, it is asked. But again things are not so simple, because there are already piles and piles of poisons in play, equipped or not. And that modifying a characteristic of an object entails checks to the chain on the existing one. And / or the risk that old objects are no longer recognized for their function.

In short: it's not as easy as stalling a "y / n" or unchecking a box.

The message has been raised. I close the subject. If another member of the team wants to complete my answers and reopen the debate, he will do so.
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